Assassinator Wrote:Character traits? Things like Nayuki not being to wake up in the morning? Think of these things as being part of the story, to make the characters more unique I guess? Either way, they're not important to the actual plot.

No.  More like, for example, Sayuri (Mai's friend).  She acts very much as if Mai is her only friend (although she did manage to get a dress/suit from someone else), considering her actions and how she cuddles up to Yuichi so quickly.  Somewhat like Misuzu in Air.  However this sort of situation seems rather unlikely considering her charisma and social ability, and there doesn't really appear to be any strong explanation, as opposed to Misuzu who is under a curse.

Assassinator Wrote:No, it would just be the most unfinished ending ever, I mean, you got all these craploads of other leads, and everything just ends. And ending that is open to interpretation is not the same as an ending which is completely inconclusive.

Assume you don't have all these other leads, don't have all the unneeded characters and plot, I think it'll still be pretty wtf anyway.


You're are partially correct. But not simply "can't give a definitive answer". More like "not even close to giving a definitive answer".

Because "open to interpretation" is in itself, pretty blurry by definition. This is sort of like my "definition" of different descriptors for endings and what they mean.

Well I guess that's where our opinions differ.  I think there are a number of possible explanations, whereas you just think it's out of the blue :P
For example, the guy's raison de'tre in Air appears to be to curing the curse.  If you consider main girl's curse, it shares a number of similarities with the other girl's curse, so you could make various implications on why it happens that way.

Senseito URΩBΩROS Wrote:Absolutely not. you've got to write an excellent story full of tragic events. It might work then.

A series of tragic events wouldn't work. Obviously. A crappy story would create pointlessness. A good story must be able to encapsulate the Tragic Events along with the Characters, Animation and every other aspect of an Anime - into an Anime.

Really now?  Are you just saying this because I loaded the question? =P

Senseito URΩBΩROS Wrote:I disagree. The high points were the restoration of equilibrium. If it ended with a tragic event..... not only would it be depressing but it wouldn't really have closure until its has been dealt with.

But ultimately, the story takes the most time to tell, not the climax :P

Senseito URΩBΩROS Wrote:In that aspect both Kanon and KgNE achieve that. Air doesn't.

Air does, depending on how you interpret the ending.

ZiNgA BuRgA Wrote:

Senseito URΩBΩROS Wrote:Absolutely not. you've got to write an excellent story full of tragic events. It might work then.

A series of tragic events wouldn't work. Obviously. A crappy story would create pointlessness. A good story must be able to encapsulate the Tragic Events along with the Characters, Animation and every other aspect of an Anime - into an Anime.

Really now?  Are you just saying this because I loaded the question? =P

Don't do that to me Zinga..

:D
I suck at writing drama anyway (well, I somewhat suck at writing, but more so at drama).

ZiNgA BuRgA Wrote:No.  More like, for example, Sayuri (Mai's friend).  She acts very much as if Mai is her only friend (although she did manage to get a dress/suit from someone else), considering her actions and how she cuddles up to Yuichi so quickly.  Somewhat like Misuzu in Air.  However this sort of situation seems rather unlikely considering her charisma and social ability, and there doesn't really appear to be any strong explanation, as opposed to Misuzu who is under a curse.

Ok... I don't completely get what you're saying...

Are you saying someone who has good social abilities wouldn't open heartedly accept Yuichi like that? Or are you saying her charisma and social ability doesn't match the way she acts with regards to Mai and Yuichi?

ZiNgA BuRgA Wrote:Well I guess that's where our opinions differ.  I think there are a number of possible explanations, whereas you just think it's out of the blue :P
For example, the guy's raison de'tre in Air appears to be to curing the curse.  If you consider main girl's curse, it shares a number of similarities with the other girl's curse, so you could make various implications on why it happens that way.

That's just you trying to make something out of it, and it's also extremely board. In pretty much every situation, however random, you'll be able to make something out of it if you really try, the mind's really good at doing that kind of stuff. Thing is, you should not need to resort to finding vague connections, if you do, then it means the event is pretty damn random.

ZiNgA BuRgA Wrote:

Senseito URΩBΩROS Wrote:In that aspect both Kanon and KgNE achieve that. Air doesn't.

Air does, depending on how you interpret the ending.

Don't know how much has been lost between the posts...

It doesn't matter how you interpret the ending. Your personal interpretations is not the high point of the story.

(This post was last modified: 14/09/2009 02:48 AM by Assassinator.)

Assassinator Wrote:Ok... I don't completely get what you're saying...

Are you saying someone who has good social abilities wouldn't open heartedly accept Yuichi like that? Or are you saying her charisma and social ability doesn't match the way she acts with regards to Mai and Yuichi?

Pretty much both (actually, they sound like rewordings of each other...).

Assassinator Wrote:That's just you trying to make something out of it, and it's also extremely board. In pretty much every situation, however random, you'll be able to make something out of it if you really try, the mind's really good at doing that kind of stuff. Thing is, you should not need to resort to finding vague connections, if you do, then it means the event is pretty damn random.

Why shouldn't you have to resort to trying to make vague connections?
And open endings often require you to do this anyway - that is, try to make something out of the details you get.

ZiNgA BuRgA Wrote:[quote=Assassinator]
Ok... I don't completely get what you're saying...

Are you saying someone who has good social abilities wouldn't open heartedly accept Yuichi like that? Or are you saying her charisma and social ability doesn't match the way she acts with regards to Mai and Yuichi?

Pretty much both

Err.... why not? People with good social abilities are more likely to interact with unfamiliar people than people with very poor social abilities, that seems pretty logical... I don't particularly find it weird.

ZiNgA BuRgA Wrote:(actually, they sound like rewordings of each other...).

The difference is which one leads to which. Good social abilities » not likely to act like that. Act like that » not likely to have good social abilities. Similar, but not exactly the same.

ZiNgA BuRgA Wrote:Why shouldn't you have to resort to trying to make vague connections?
And open endings often require you to do this anyway - that is, try to make something out of the details you get.

But generally you get a lot more details, and the connections are much more precise.

Like for any show with magic in it, you can attempt to explain everything by... there's magic, therefore stuff happens. But is that any good? No, you'd need something more precise than that.

Assassinator Wrote:Err.... why not? People with good social abilities are more likely to interact with unfamiliar people than people with very poor social abilities, that seems pretty logical... I don't particularly find it weird.

Sure, but do people with good social abilities make lunch for some single person every single day after barely meeting with them?
Also, considering that she spends breaks with Mai, and seems to be with her after school as well, there doesn't appear to be much socialising she does otherwise.

Assassinator Wrote:The difference is which one leads to which. Good social abilities » not likely to act like that. Act like that » not likely to have good social abilities. Similar, but not exactly the same.

Cause and effect is rather less relevant in a social context since relationships are ongoing...

Assassinator Wrote:But generally you get a lot more details, and the connections are much more precise.

Like for any show with magic in it, you can attempt to explain everything by... there's magic, therefore stuff happens. But is that any good? No, you'd need something more precise than that.

That's true, and a problem with shows which use magic.  Still doesn't say much about why one shouldn't make vague implications (are you confusing yourself between "totally making something up" vs "drawing implications which aren't so blatant"?).
However, I believe there is a stronger connection than just your belief of "he gained double you tee eff magical powers".

ZiNgA BuRgA Wrote:Sure, but do people with good social abilities make lunch for some single person every single day after barely meeting with them?

Yes it would be extremely weird in real life, but that kind of thing seems really common in anime, making lunches for friends. That's probably why I never paid much notice to it. And becoming good friends with someone after just barely meeting them is also really common in anime.

ZiNgA BuRgA Wrote:Also, considering that she spends breaks with Mai, and seems to be with her after school as well, there doesn't appear to be much socialising she does otherwise.

That seems somewhat true though.

ZiNgA BuRgA Wrote:That's true, and a problem with shows which use magic.

Not really... having magic in a show does not mean it also have to have vague wtf things in it.

ZiNgA BuRgA Wrote:Still doesn't say much about why one shouldn't make vague implications (are you confusing yourself between "totally making something up" vs "drawing implications which aren't so blatant"?).

I never said you shouldn't. I'm saying just because you could, it doesn't really prove that the event isn't really wtf, because the connection is so vague it's not worth much (for even the most random double you tee eff situations, coming up with that much is not hard).

Assassinator Wrote:

ZiNgA BuRgA Wrote:Sure, but do people with good social abilities make lunch for some single person every single day after barely meeting with them?

Yes it would be extremely weird in real life, but that kind of thing seems really common in anime, making lunches for friends. That's probably why I never paid much notice to it. And becoming good friends with someone after just barely meeting them is also really common in anime.

................ wonder if it is like that in Japan... would be rather quaint wouldnt it?

Assassinator Wrote:Yes it would be extremely weird in real life, but that kind of thing seems really common in anime, making lunches for friends. That's probably why I never paid much notice to it. And becoming good friends with someone after just barely meeting them is also really common in anime.

Seems to be more in romance stories only though.

Assassinator Wrote:Not really... having magic in a show does not mean it also have to have vague wtf things in it.

Yes, but the possibility is always open.  Non-magical world = no possibility.

Assassinator Wrote:I never said you shouldn't. I'm saying just because you could, it doesn't really prove that the event isn't really wtf, because the connection is so vague it's not worth much (for even the most random double you tee eff situations, coming up with that much is not hard).

You're playing around with words again.  Let's just say that I think there's a half-reasonable connection, whereas you think there's practically none.