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S7*
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Post: #801
RE: AniList 3/Anime Chatter with Senseito
(07/02/2011 07:17 PM)Assassinator Wrote:  So is it my average (or less-than-average) understanding of people, feelings, the non-scientific side of the mind and heart, that has failed me in seeing the true excellence within that which is one of the highest rated VNs (currently 11th on EGS discounting duplicates), and is considered an absolute masterpiece by many?  

Including Kinoko Nasu (who wrote Kara no Kyoukai which wee were just talking about)
Spoiler for Nasu on Cross+Channel:
    There is nothing to say about this.
    I had a hunch about it, but I didn’t expect it to be this good.

    CROSS†CHANNEL (FlyingShine)

    I’ll make this my family heirloom.
    It’s both my good fortune and bad luck that I would meet this work which now reigns as an absolute and insurmountable wall.

    Anyway the game is too amazing so everybody please play it! Oh man, I know saying all this is like I’m strangling my own neck, but I can’t stop myself from recommending it!

It's hard to pinpoint "understanding people, feelings, the non-scientific side of the mind and heart" because understanding of these things come from contemplation (as well as truth in psychology, of course) but that of course, would depend on...

(07/02/2011 07:17 PM)Assassinator Wrote:  And he asked me...

Have you ever measured the depth of your self?
Do you find worth for the people around you?
Are you interested in "humans"?

And I could not answer him.  Because "yes" would be a huge lie.  "Maybe" at most, even that would be slightly pushing it.

... I think you answered the question that needed to be asked.. and I think he might have nailed it by asking those questions.

It's hard for me to say anything further other than - it's really up to you - what you want to care about and consider.. but the most important ones are of course those related to your self.

How often do you ask "Why?" when you feel emotions? To you - is it even worth contemplating other peoples feelings - even if it is just the question "Why do they feel that way"?
10/02/2011 04:46 AM
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Assassinator
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Post: #802
RE: AniList 3/Anime Chatter with Senseito
(10/02/2011 04:46 AM)S7* Wrote:  How often do you ask "Why?" when you feel emotions? To you - is it even worth contemplating other peoples feelings - even if it is just the question "Why do they feel that way"?

First one, hardly ever.
Second one, sort of yes, but not really anything beyond "Why do they feel that way".

(10/02/2011 04:46 AM)S7* Wrote:  It's hard for me to say anything further other than - it's really up to you - what you want to care about and consider.. but the most important ones are of course those related to your self.

Ofcourse.

What I meant in the other post is, I have a feeling that only people who truly contemplated stuff like that can understand the true value within works such as this (ok, not "only", but they have a much increased probability compared to others).  In a similar sense to how some pieces of art (that aren't blindingly obvious) may take another artist to truly appreciate.  So you rated it 10, but I can't really give it anything more than a 6 or 7.



Also, don't take anything I wrote in the previous post negatively, I didn't mean anything negative (though it may have sounded a little so).
(This post was last modified: 10/02/2011 05:27 AM by Assassinator.)
10/02/2011 05:26 AM
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S7*
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Post: #803
RE: AniList 3/Anime Chatter with Senseito
(10/02/2011 05:26 AM)Assassinator Wrote:  
(10/02/2011 04:46 AM)S7* Wrote:  How often do you ask "Why?" when you feel emotions? To you - is it even worth contemplating other peoples feelings - even if it is just the question "Why do they feel that way"?

First one, hardly ever.
Second one, sort of yes, but not really anything beyond "Why do they feel that way".

That's interesting to me.. I mean I saw some of my favourite titles when I was a hikikomori - confining myself to my bedroom for several hours at a time to watch anime or listen to music and I felt a bit like a younger Satou from Welcome to the NHK in as much as never leaving the house unless I had to, and I didn't go to school or anything like that so I didn't go out often, if at all at that point.

It was at this point I watched a good portion of my watched list and the ones that felt extra special - Kanon and Elfen Lied - had a strong emotional effect on me. I won't hide the fact I cried in both cases - because I did. Maybe it was because I created emotional connections with the characters I watched because other than my family, who I wasn't communicating with at a deep level much at the time, I had no other connections and felt the need to know these characters I've seen.

Now, I've grown to be more outgoing and social since, but I've still been effected greatly by Kanon (rewatch), not so much Elfen Lied (rewatch) but Clannad in it's entirety made me feel the same way Kinoko Nasu did in as much as saying "I’ll make this my family heirloom." It felt special to me.. and there are quite a few I've seen since that had that personal affect.

The curious thing is how the better titles, the real minority of them, effected me before and after... in different states of mind... before and after I cared about myself let alone anybody else.

I think the way you are, with yourself or with others, can be related to the way you enjoy certain titles. Especially ones that rely on emotions and feelings so much.

Funnily enough, it's because of this I hated Angel Beats - more so than most - because I felt the end was so fake and artificial that it made me hate it. The "convenient ending" is surely, more often than not, the one that a writer uses as an excuse to end the story.. and that, to me, is like giving up. If the writer is trying to write something meaningful, the feeling must remain consistently progressive as breaks or jumps in the flow without explanation destroy the illusion of a believable character - and believable characters are, of course, a critical part of a believable story. And if the writer is successful creating believable characters and story, the connection between the viewer and the title probably becomes meaningful.

Perhaps there are different kinds of people, kinds that can easily accept that characters and story, and a kind who find it hard. And that's a formula to explain enjoyment - that is if meaningful stories are equivalent to enjoyment.

Sorry for the long post. v.v

(10/02/2011 05:26 AM)Assassinator Wrote:  
(10/02/2011 04:46 AM)S7* Wrote:  It's hard for me to say anything further other than - it's really up to you - what you want to care about and consider.. but the most important ones are of course those related to your self.

Ofcourse.

What I meant in the other post is, I have a feeling that only people who truly contemplated stuff like that can understand the true value within works such as this (ok, not "only", but they have a much increased probability compared to others).  In a similar sense to how some pieces of art (that aren't blindingly obvious) may take another artist to truly appreciate.  So you rated it 10, but I can't really give it anything more than a 6 or 7.

I'll probably watch it again and decide to bring it down. But at the time it felt like a 10 to me. What else is it if I can't say what what was wrong with it? It was beautiful, meaningful and an interesting reflection on the two characters wee've learnt about over the 7 films, let alone the third, of whom had this incredibly deep reflection upon herself as a whole that touched upon some thoughts of a true understanding of oneself that I'm sure many people crave. But even she discarded her own thoughts at one point and that struck me - what use is contemplating an idea so vast as the ones discussed - personality, intelligence and the 'self' that creates and contains it? How will it help? It helps because wee want to accept ourselves for who wee are, and she wanted to explain herself to someone else, so maybe she did understand herself. Nothingness understood everything... because everything was nothing.

I could go on, but I was running through just slices of some of the things she said and just contemplated on and on... and I was thankful for it. That's why I rated it a 10.
10/02/2011 06:35 AM
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Assassinator
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Post: #804
RE: AniList 3/Anime Chatter with Senseito
(10/02/2011 06:35 AM)S7* Wrote:  The curious thing is how the better titles, the real minority of them, effected me before and after... in different states of mind... before and after I cared about myself let alone anybody else.

Sort of like....

Problem is, if my first impression of something is exceedingly great, I don't really want to watch it again because of the risk of completely destroy my past impression.

Reason #3 why I don't watch stuff I've already watched I guess.  Reason #1 and 2 are the ones I always tell people when they ask.

(10/02/2011 06:35 AM)S7* Wrote:  I think the way you are, with yourself or with others, can be related to the way you enjoy certain titles. Especially ones that rely on emotions and feelings so much.

By "you", do you mean me, or do you mean people in general?

(10/02/2011 06:35 AM)S7* Wrote:  Funnily enough, it's because of this I hated Angel Beats - more so than most - because I felt the end was so fake and artificial that it made me hate it.

Did you actually find the start and middle (ie. everything besides the end) to be particularly good?  Because I didn't really.

(10/02/2011 06:35 AM)S7* Wrote:  The "convenient ending" is surely, more often than not, the one that a writer uses as an excuse to end the story.. and that, to me, is like giving up. If the writer is trying to write something meaningful, the feeling must remain consistently progressive as breaks or jumps in the flow without explanation destroy the illusion of a believable character - and believable characters are, of course, a critical part of a believable story. And if the writer is successful creating believable characters and story, the connection between the viewer and the title probably becomes meaningful.

But I think you sort of expected a bit too much out of it.

Also, have you ever wondered why
Spoiler:
Tenshi ends up in the afterlife world earlier than the main character does, even though the main character obviously dies first?
(10/02/2011 06:35 AM)S7* Wrote:  Perhaps there are different kinds of people, kinds that can easily accept that characters and story, and a kind who find it hard.

Definitely.  I won't say I find it particularly hard to accept stories, but I can definitely say I tend to easily see flaws within stories.





Clannad After Story BDs coming out in April.

I've decided to watch the anime.  The VN is too long, and thus probably not worth the effort over the anime as long as the adaption isn't like majorly inferior (hi Baldr Force, YU-NO, Eien no Aselia). or moderately inferior (Tsukihime, F/SN).  From comments and ratings, that definitely doesn't seem to be the case.  I have plenty of other VNs I need to get through anyway, some of which are rated even higher than Clannad.
(This post was last modified: 11/02/2011 11:03 PM by Assassinator.)
11/02/2011 09:50 AM
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ZiNgA BuRgA
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Post: #805
RE: AniList 3/Anime Chatter with Senseito
(11/02/2011 09:50 AM)Assassinator Wrote:  Also, have you ever wondered why
Spoiler:
Tenshi ends up in the afterlife world earlier than the main character does, even though the main character obviously dies first?
I wondered the same, as well as the fact that the SSS were fighting her for quite a while, but then, that somewhat assumes that time in the dead world is somewhat related to time in the real world.
I found the ending kinda nice, but the final episode poo poo.


What you said above is hardly actually surprising to me.  I've found your thinking to be generally more "judging" rather than "sensing", and you seem to have some strict set of guidelines or ideals which you favor (eg never watch a show more than once).  There seems to be a few about self image too, and sometimes worrying too much about self image can affect your perception of others.
Not to say there's anything negative about it, rather, people's minds work differently and there isn't any sort of ideal thinking pattern out there anyway.
(This post was last modified: 11/02/2011 10:44 PM by ZiNgA BuRgA.)
11/02/2011 10:43 PM
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Assassinator
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RE: AniList 3/Anime Chatter with Senseito
(11/02/2011 10:43 PM)ZiNgA BuRgA Wrote:  
(11/02/2011 09:50 AM)Assassinator Wrote:  Also, have you ever wondered why
Spoiler:
Tenshi ends up in the afterlife world earlier than the main character does, even though the main character obviously dies first?
I wondered the same, as well as the fact that the SSS were fighting her for quite a while, but then, that somewhat assumes that time in the dead world is somewhat related to time in the real world.
I found the ending kinda nice, but the final episode poo poo.

I actually liked the last episode.  Not "OMG 10/10 LOVE!!!", just "liked" I guess.  But then, I didn't find all the other episodes up to the then to be that excellent, so I guess it wasn't particularly hard to trump them.  Something about the fact that it's both serious and not at the same time didn't sit too well with me I guess.

Anyway, Angel Beats was inferior, to other shows that reply on feelings, because AB pretty much just has this one episode tacked onto the end to try to "grab people's feelings with" or whatever, while stuff like KgNE had excellent build up, and AIR had a back story which carried it so very hard.  So AB is like way more hit and miss.  Sensei mentioned the ending being "convenient", I somewhat agree.

(11/02/2011 10:43 PM)ZiNgA BuRgA Wrote:  What you said above is hardly actually surprising to me.

Which bit?  I said a crapload of stuff in this thread lately.

(11/02/2011 10:43 PM)ZiNgA BuRgA Wrote:  I've found your thinking to be generally more "judging" rather than "sensing", and you seem to have some strict set of guidelines or ideals which you favor (eg never watch a show more than once).

I wouldn't consider them "strict guidelines", as that's usually associated with discipline, that is, forcing myself to go one way when I don't want to or when it would be more convenient to do otherwise.  In terms of discipline, I would say I'm horrible (just take my sleeping times for example, heh, equal chance between 10pm-5am).

Things like my principles of "never watching a show more than once" is derived mostly from reasoning.  So it's not like forcing myself not to re-watch against my will, it's more like, I never had the desire to start off with.

Spoiler for recap on my reasoning:
#1 - (It is assumed that) there are way more content out there than time will allow me to watch/play/whatever (even if you only consider the good stuff and ignore the bad stuff).  Therefore I prefer to widen my scope and get through as many different titles as possible, instead of repeating the same titles over and over, especially when...

#2 - From experience, knowing exactly 100% of what's going to happen will significantly negatively impact on my enjoyment,  Actually, that's related to the importance of the story within the show, but all the good stuff on my list have enough of a story to be "spoiled" (except for very rare cases... err... only GTO probably).  Therefore, it makes new and fresh titles all that much more appealing than a re-watch.

#3 - If my first impression of something is exceedingly great, then I don't really want to watch it again either because of the risk of completely destroy my past impression.  If otherwise (that is, my first impression of it isn't great), then to re-watch it would be like to troll myself.
Occasionally, I do re-watch single episodes, for example when I don't understand something, and I need to re-watch in order to clarify.  Also some action sequences I might go over again after the episode, because they're awesome :P.  But yeah, that's for single episodes, I see very little reason to re-watch a whole show (unless maybe like 15yrs have passed, and I can't remember shit anymore...).



kung FFFFUUUUUU Tsugumi is pissing me off.

EDIT: WAIT, WHAT!!!
(This post was last modified: 24/02/2011 09:44 PM by Assassinator.)
12/02/2011 02:19 AM
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ZiNgA BuRgA
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Post: #807
RE: AniList 3/Anime Chatter with Senseito
Well, to put it in your own words, you rely a fair bit on reasoning (as opposed to say, emotions) and adhere a fair bit to the disciplines gained through this reasoning.
But anyway, I digress.
14/02/2011 01:28 AM
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Assassinator
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RE: AniList 3/Anime Chatter with Senseito
(08/02/2011 03:39 AM)Sparker Wrote:  
(08/02/2011 03:24 AM)Assassinator Wrote:  
(08/02/2011 03:15 AM)Sparker Wrote:  
(07/02/2011 07:17 PM)Assassinator Wrote:  On a different note, that kid's arc in Bakemonogatari is boring the fuck out of me, hope it gets better later on...

Uh, what? There are two kids, the middle schooler and elementary schooler. So I can't quite be sure which one you're talking about.

Episode 4 and 5.

Okay, I'll admit that, that was the worse arc but it didn't bore me though.

I just went and finished episode 5 now, it wasn't all that bad.  Episode 4 was the one that put me to sleep.
15/03/2011 05:21 PM
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S7*
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Post: #809
RE: AniList 3/Anime Chatter with Senseito
(15/03/2011 05:21 PM)Assassinator Wrote:  
(08/02/2011 03:39 AM)Sparker Wrote:  
(08/02/2011 03:24 AM)Assassinator Wrote:  
(08/02/2011 03:15 AM)Sparker Wrote:  
(07/02/2011 07:17 PM)Assassinator Wrote:  On a different note, that kid's arc in Bakemonogatari is boring the fuck out of me, hope it gets better later on...

Uh, what? There are two kids, the middle schooler and elementary schooler. So I can't quite be sure which one you're talking about.

Episode 4 and 5.

Okay, I'll admit that, that was the worse arc but it didn't bore me though.

I just went and finished episode 5 now, it wasn't all that bad.  Episode 4 was the one that put me to sleep.

Persevere! It's not too bad! ^^'
16/03/2011 03:02 AM
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S7*
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Post: #810
RE: AniList 3/Anime Chatter with Senseito
So I only just got around to seeing Ore no Imouto 12 - True Route (as I saw 13 released)... was it better than the original ending? Sort of. It was some sort of conclusion but at least with this "True Route" it opens some interesting story development possibilities... less/no Kirino, more Kuroneko? I can live with that.

At least Kirino showed her sweet side consistently for once.. and well her brother even got to find out an extra taste of hers.
29/03/2011 05:13 PM
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