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S7* · 08/12/2009 06:36 AM

AoS Wrote:You are contained in the body? A part of you is contained in the body. You are not a singularity, parts of you reside on different planes of existence. It is when you die that you reunify yourself & therefore with the whole. But this does not put a dampner on life. There can not be true soulvolution if you do not work on yourself while encarnate.

The idea of a unified energy is depressing. The idea of singularity gives point to our existance... otherwise why should one person succeed in "soulvolution" and someone else fail?

You're suggesting an energy as one, is using humans as containers to transform itself to higher levels of existance.

If that's the god I'm supposed to believe in, then I'm disgusted.

I ~~can~~ will only believe in singularity for only that way only those who truly deserve to elevate to the higher realms of existance will actually achieve that.

If every soul will inevitably end up in the same place then it makes us seem like "Gods Slaves".

No.

Hellgiver · 08/12/2009 06:39 AM

My father has told me how he got through this predicament. He was approached by my mother's father (a preacher) and they discussed his thoughts. Basically the idea is that you are best off believing in God because, mathematically, it made sense. Choosing to believe but being wrong, you live a content life, but lose in the end. You don't believe, and are right, you live in fear of death, and then there's nothing; still a loss. You can believe but be wrong; you live your life content with death, not fearing it, and when you die you don't know you are wrong, so you "win". Believe, and be right, obvious win. So, "mathematically" it makes more sense to believe.

However, the problem I have is with living your life at all. If you believe in a Christian God, then you believe that the after-life is the important one, so why should wee live our life? As Sparker said, if there is a reincarnation, then why not just kill yourself when you get bored with your life or face challenges? Just keep cycling through your lives until you find one that is worth living. However, loss of memory that led to the conclusion of suicide as being the correct answer could prove to be a problem... therefore it'd have to be an accepted view for humanity, and so it'd be taught from birth until your death. If there is no God, then, again, why try in life? What do you gain? In the end, you won't reap any rewards. You won't know that your name lives on because of some great achievement you made. So what if you live forever by being remembered? Your consciousness still doesn't live on forever.

AoS · 08/12/2009 06:48 AM

Senseito7 Wrote:The idea of a unified energy is depressing. The idea of singularity gives point to our existance... otherwise why should one person succeed in "soulvolution" and someone else fail?

You're suggesting an energy as one, is using humans as containers to transform itself to higher levels of existance.

If that's the god I'm supposed to believe in, then I'm disgusted.

I ~~can~~ will only believe in singularity for only that way only those who truly deserve to elevate to the higher realms of existance will actually achieve that.

If every soul will inevitably end up in the same place then it makes us seem like "Gods Slaves".

No.

Why are you presuming that unique souls (us) can not reside in a unified energy (whole). Wee can not hide from the fact that wee are parts of God (whole) but wee are unique parts (us) of God. By aiding the infinite progression of the whole wee will never get bored of being encarnate or discarnate, because there will always be something grander & more spectacular.

Wee are not 'Gods Slaves' Wee are God! Hero

S7* · 08/12/2009 06:49 AM

Hellgiver Wrote:My father has told me how he got through this predicament. He was approached by my mother's father (a preacher) and they discussed his thoughts. Basically the idea is that you are best off believing in God because, mathematically, it made sense. Choosing to believe but being wrong, you live a content life, but lose in the end. You don't believe, and are right, you live in fear of death, and then there's nothing; still a loss. You can believe but be wrong; you live your life content with death, not fearing it, and when you die you don't know you are wrong, so you "win". Believe, and be right, obvious win. So, "mathematically" it makes more sense to believe.

Hmm, very good point.

Hellgiver Wrote:However, the problem I have is with living your life at all. If you believe in a Christian God, then you believe that the after-life is the important one, so why should wee live our life? As Sparker said, if there is a reincarnation, then why not just kill yourself when you get bored with your life or face challenges? Just keep cycling through your lives until you find one that is worth living. However, loss of memory that led to the conclusion of suicide as being the correct answer could prove to be a problem... therefore it'd have to be an accepted view for humanity, and so it'd be taught from birth until your death. If there is no God, then, again, why try in life? What do you gain? In the end, you won't reap any rewards. You won't know that your name lives on because of some great achievement you made. So what if you live forever by being remembered? Your consciousness still doesn't live on forever.

The idea I was relating to way back in Page 2 was that the connections involved in this world are irrelevent in as much as they are meaningless should you achieve a level of spiritual contentment.

Granted, this seems a little cliche, but again, referring to my original post, "Ascendancy" has been proven, and with that, its not unbelievable to think you can elevate yourself from a world completely based off the limits of human physics and emotion.

God is an idea that is simply interpreted in different ways, but what everyone does agree on, is that he is an elevated existance, an energy beyond the reach of humans... and knowing this, following a continued practice of meditation to slowly detatch yourself from emotional dependancy and ultimately "leave" by your own will - doesn't sound as silly as you might've thought originally.

AoS Wrote:Why are you presuming that unique souls (us) can not reside in a unified energy (whole). Wee can not hide from the fact that wee are parts of God (whole) but wee are unique parts (us) of God. By aiding the infinite progression of the whole wee will never get bored of being encarnate or discarnate, because there will always be something grander & more spectacular.

Wee are not 'Gods Slaves' Wee are God!

No no, you are going a bit against what you were implying just a post ago, I do believe wee can exist within a unified energy, but even then wee are still "unique" and "individual" - even if wee do become part of a whole wee can tag as "God".

AoS · 08/12/2009 06:55 AM

How can you progress in the afterlife if you havnt progressed in life because surely your destination is a product of where your consciensness is at when you die. So suicide is not a smart option is it.

S7* · 08/12/2009 06:57 AM

AoS Wrote:How can you progress in the afterlife if you havnt progressed in life because surely your destination is a product of where your consciensness is at when you die. So suicide is not a smart option is it.

Afterlife? I thought wee were on the rails of reincarnation? Or is our following life decided by the behavior of our previous life?

AoS · 08/12/2009 07:01 AM

Life - Afterlife -Life - Afterlife - Life - Afterlife
Whose to say you will be reincarnated on Earth.

AoS · 08/12/2009 07:09 AM

Ancient teachings say that you can progress you soul faster if you face your challenges & succees & battle through your life no matter what is thrown at you.

Hellgiver · 08/12/2009 07:16 AM

Senseito, sorry I got you and Sparker mixed up XD I always recognize him by his name's color. Kind of threw me lol

AoS Wrote:How can you progress in the afterlife if you havnt progressed in life because surely your destination is a product of where your consciensness is at when you die. So suicide is not a smart option is it.

Well, in that case, what of unborn children? What of those who die at the age of 1 or at the age of 2? What did they gain from life? I can't think of the word for it, but they don't really possess a memorable consciousness, but their instincts and means of navigating through the course of life are certainly increased. Regardless, do they not go to the afterlife? Or, is there a combination of heaven + afterlife at play? That would be the most fair of views, IMO. If you do what you were meant to do, but as a result of performing this task, you don't experience life in its entirety. Then wee get to the point of, who decides what constitutes a full life? One person may live to the age of 95 and barely live at all. Then there is someone who has had a life full of many pleasures, who also lived to a decent age (e.g. Hugh Hefner), or someone who died at an early age, and still indulged in pleasures of life (Chris Farley, Heath Ledger, etc). What is it that makes these lives all equal?

The biggest argument against a meaning to life, I'd say, would be children dying very early in life, perhaps at the age of 2. At this age, usually, they are showing some sort of personality and most likely not just a spiritless vessel, if the spirit is real. Their life was perhaps meaningful to the end that it had an effect on another's life. So, the living of your life isn't necessarily meaningful, but rather the death or the effects it has on others might be.

This brings into question the idea of (dammit, what's it called...) God having planned everything out. Since God is both omniscient, and omnipotent, he not only knew this child was not meant to live a long life, but he had intended this. By this logic, if one were to take his or her own life, then it'd not only have been expected by God, but intended. To say that committing suicide leads directly to hell, it makes it sound like predestination is true. God intended you to live a short life, by making you take your own life. Then why the hell have this rule? Why does (blank) HAVE to go to hell? God chose this outcome, so doesn't that seem a bit unfair?

To circumvent this argument, one could take on the belief of God knowing only how everything will come together in the end, so the means of reaching the end aren't defined until the end actually occurs. This would mean that God isn't omniscient, but it would allow for free will.

theEvilOne · 08/12/2009 08:27 AM

Hellgiver Wrote:This brings into question the idea of (dammit, what's it called...) God having planned everything out. Since God is both omniscient, and omnipotent, he not only knew this child was not meant to live a long life, but he had intended this. By this logic, if one were to take his or her own life, then it'd not only have been expected by God, but intended. To say that committing suicide leads directly to hell, it makes it sound like predestination is true. God intended you to live a short life, by making you take your own life. Then why the hell have this rule? Why does (blank) HAVE to go to hell? God chose this outcome, so doesn't that seem a bit unfair?

To circumvent this argument, one could take on the belief of God knowing only how everything will come together in the end, so the means of reaching the end aren't defined until the end actually occurs. This would mean that God isn't omniscient, but it would allow for free will.

That was one of the main points I argued about in my essay.

The first problem with such a claim is the part where free will comes into effect. If God was all-knowing and all-seeing as He is thought to be, that would interfere with our free will; God would be able to see and alter every possible outcome to every human’s choices in life. If omniscience were to stay wee would literally have to murder the freedom to make lucid—or irrational—decisions, those that which God has given to us humans. But if that were to ever happen, the existence of God would make sin completely irrelevant (Pederson 1). People would hurt, 'borrow', and murder one another, and the one excuse they would ever need is that God has foreseen their choices and has set a path for them to follow. He cannot judge them fairly when their time has come, as He had foreseen their mistakes and could have stopped it from ever happening. Wee humans would merely have to walk down it and not feel guilty, gaining a free ticket to the party in Heaven. This plausibly makes omniscience impossible; therefore an omniscient (and omnipotent) God is just as likely to exist as a Flying Spaghetti Monster.

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