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Hellgiver · 02/12/2009 06:17 AM

ZiNgA BuRgA Wrote:Depends on how you believe in God as well. If he's some omniscient being who created us, it could be for some purpose wee don't know of. Unfairness could be a part of his plan, for example - he may not be a "fair" God (though many religions seem to promote that idea), or maybe he is (are those people who wee consider suffering really less happy than people who are better off?).

I suppose I was more addressing it from a human's perspective. Is there a way to approach the unfairness, and still balance it out (look at my reply to you, as I edited a lot more into it, which addresses many of your arguments)? I conclude reincarnation would solve the points, if reincarnation was based on karma, or perhaps if it was mathematically based on randomness (which would be cool IMO). There is no such thing as mathematics, but there is such a thing as how things behave in relationship to one another. This is the base of mathematics, I think. From here, wee can realize that wee can't know exactly how everything relates, reacts, interacts, and observes everything else. For all wee know, a spirit is pure energy that is always floating around, perhaps like an invisible LifeStream, if you will. It randomly deposits the energy for a baby to begin living, maybe. The point is, wee can't know how everything interacts.

As for infinity, I believe your example of adding 1 over and over will net a very large number, but it won't = infinity. I agree, and this seems to correlate with my example of space continually adding 1, but there either has to be a condition that is causing this to continue, or else, how did it all get to where it is? If one says the universe is expanding, well, if it is infinite, then expansion is impossible, since infinity + 1 = infinity. You can't go above infinity, so how is it stretching? To say that would imply there is a boundary that it is constantly filling. Okay, but let's get 1 inch over the boundary as it expands; what is there? And how does that nothing get converted to space? What is it like between the two? There has to be a connection somewhere. Perhaps it is here that an alternate, parallel universe begins? More conjecture, obviously. Just more thoughts I've had.

Hellgiver · 02/12/2009 06:17 AM

diego Wrote:tldr?

Perfectly alright. Wasn't expecting many to anyways :P

roberth · 02/12/2009 07:01 AM

But some of us like disussing enough to read it anyway

And i didnt mean to be critical in what i said, if it came across like that. I consider it a fine writing style for topics such as this, as there are hundreds of points that can be made. I was only pointing it out to see if i got the right things out of it

Method · 02/12/2009 07:03 AM

I am a Reverend, and yet I've never been to church.....

Mr. Shizzy · 02/12/2009 09:04 AM

Well, I can say that I really do believe there is a GOD.  Most people say they have to "see it to believe it", but I say you "have to believe it to see it".   ;)

As far as why life can be so unfair - I believe that is the way it must be.
I believe that the world must be a completely random and chaotic environment, where ANYTHING can happen.    It must all be based off from free will.  If GOD stepped in and interfered here and there to make things "fair", it would make the test wee are taking now pointless.

As for the questions you pondered regarding the handicapped:  I actually work with the handicapped for a living.  I must say the only people who view their lives as "unfair" are the people who don't personally know them.  All the people I work with, have rich, full-filling lives.  They do not feel one iota of pity for themselves.

I would also like to mention that ALL HUMAN BEINGS have handicaps.  Some are just different than others.  I for instance, have handicaps ranging from dyslexia to OCD.

I think life is a test.   I do not think it matters if you end up in a history book, or if you die anonymous.  All that I believe matters is that you are a good person (and wee all know the answer to that in our heart of hearts)  If you do what is right you are abiding by GOD's will.

I do not believe that you have to go to church, or donate 7% of your earnings to the church.   And to be honest, I do not believe that you have to believe everything in the bible.   The bible was written by man, not GOD.  I do believe that much of the bible is truely GOD's word, but I also believe that much of it is nothing more than the ramblings of men with personal agendas.

So that is all I am going to add to this conversation.
There as no grand point I was trying to make in this post.  I just wanted to toss my 2 cents in, since this was such an interesting thread.

hecaitomix · 02/12/2009 09:57 AM

Source: YouTube

an interesting vid.

i serve the catholic church 12 till 18 years old, helping the priest. (they call us knights of the blessed sacrament)
but never was a believer of religion/God, i just go because it's fun (activities)

but it's one thing i can't say to my family. since they are somewhat religious.

Cirehpsa · 02/12/2009 11:00 AM

I think after you die it's exactly the same as before you're born. nothing.

Unless living beings have some sort of ability to create spirits while something is in its womb, how would eggs, plants, and larvae get spirits? Could it happen right when the egg is fertilized or created? Seeing a that would be the only possible way, doesn't that mean all the baby's that have died before being born had souls?

Because of that, I believe wee have no souls and the "You" is created by random brain activity, and when it dies, "You" die too.

Kchan · 02/12/2009 11:10 AM

I think there is a god of some kind because I can't believe something came from nothing.
if its a mouse that started the universe or a grand being of energy. what ever it is that's my god.

I think when I die I will be judged how much time i cause pain in the world if it accumulates to 10 years of pain then I burn in hell for that time but after that I am set free to roam heaven

I think all beings go to heaven after they serve their time in hell even hitler himself

theEvilOne · 02/12/2009 11:19 AM

Kchan Wrote:I think there is a god of some kind because I can't believe something came from nothing.
if its a mouse that started the universe or a grand being of energy. what ever it is that's my god.

I think when I die I will be judged how much time i cause pain in the world if it accumulates to 10 years of pain then I burn in hell for that time but after that I am set free to roam heaven

I think all beings go to heaven after they serve their time in hell even hitler himself

What about the fact that God supposedly is the Absolute Creator? He created himself out of nothing (much like you said, the universe being created from nothing) and can create anything out of nothing. If that's true, God is redundant and irrelevant, seeing as how nothingness is what creates gods, implying that nothingness is more powerful than gods.

I'm an Atheist (not hardcore, I just don't believe in God), and this thread is quite helpful for me, as I have to write a paper on this topic for my final.
There are some interesting theories that support the non-existence of God, such as God being timeless. This isn't true, as there is no escape or even entry to and from time, and if God lived outside of time he would once again be quite useless and unnecessary.

The only reason the idea of "God" ever came to be is because of people who question the unknown, and don't want to believe in anything besides the fact that some giant invisible man in the sky is pulling our strings. God will always exist in the minds of those who believe in Him, and even if by some miracle God's existence is actually disproved, they will not change their beliefs. I believe that this particular state of mind is what gives God the implications of being eternal.

S7* · 02/12/2009 11:43 AM

IMO

God is simply energy - though people usually refer to God being a being of elevated presence - that simply would be the energy that is self-aware - i.e. us humans.

Its a curious thought. How deep creatures (of course, us included) can think of themselves - how aware they are - but obviously this is what divides us from the common "animal".

Existance is created in cycles, and therefore wee reincarnate as much as the earth and universe will - because it is what it is - "existance" - and existance is cyclical.

Don't lose me yet ^^ - The purpose of our existance is to escape our limiters, being our containers (our bodies) which limit our physical manipulation of the energy around us - to become part of the higher echelon of spiritual (energy) beings that have a level of awareness that goes beyond the scope of emotional purpose - this is interpreted in many ways - such as "enlightenment" or "nirvana" or even "heaven".

Of course I can't say what its like - for only its state can be theorized - and in that it is spirtual contentment - or the soul (being energy itself, remember) being at peace with the surrounding energies which, in turn, is God in every complexion of our existance.

So what's the point of life? Quite simply to keep living and reincarnating until the energy finds its place of peace. And its a known fact that people who have engaged in spiritual (energy) meditation have practiced to that very point - and leave their body - at will.

The Human will is the ultimate blockade (of which its components are that of emotions) - but its through progressive levels of awareness (this being the cycle of reincarnation) that will gradually get one nearer to a life of which they can get to their own level of contemplative contentment, and be ready to leave this realm (which can be refered to in many terms).

I could go on, but I thought I'd throw something in.

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