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bboy_sonik · 04/11/2008 06:49 AM

Xvid4PSP? I don't like it. Personal thing. I'll use PSP Video 9 aka "Red Kawa Converter" before that. And I already OWN a copy of TMPGEnc 4 Xpress it does everything fantastically amazing, im just new to the glory that is AVC :D

As for quality, I disagree - MainConcept's AVC codec [which is in TMPGEnc] is amazing, and looks better than anything x264 can do for some reason. It probably just likes me better though [open source software HATES me, seriously]

Yeah I've noticed it does extremely good quality 1-Pass encoding blessedhands, and it IS a slower encoder compared to others but that's just the way TMPGEnc converts - it doesn't transcode though its a TRUE re-encoder [except when DirectShow Reader is used, then its just standard YUV Transcoding which is poo] and has minimal generation loss, even when re-encoding extremely low bitrate files between completey different formats Eg MPEG-2 SVCD to WMV. But that's not the point of this conversation really!

In regards to your codec woes install the CCCP its all you'll ever need
Code:

			http://www.cccp-project.net/

...check out the Wiki and you'll see what I mean ;)

ANYWAY, yeah toons/anime compresses nice and good hey ;) and yeah the blocking-in-the-dark is always an issue when trying to get a good compression, but it was really obvious on GOMEncoder for some reason :S apart from that, it created fully compliant Main@L3 AVC videos very similar to the TMPGEnc output :)

That's a very good encoding speed too. VERY good compared to me. My encoding speed on this piece of poo poo is about  x1.8 movie length lol. But im encoding at 640x480, I've noticed that lower resolutions [eg 480x272] encode much faster than I expected. But AVC is a very complex codec you got to remember, it's the "sequal" to the DivX/XviD/3vix/etcetera formats [see this article] and NOBODY has anywhere near good enough encoding speed, im surprised you got close to x1.0!!!!

Subtitles? To burn in subtitles in TMPGEnc, you have to

1) Click on "Edit" under source tab for the video clip in the list u want subs for

2) "Filters" tab

3) For somereason the subtitle filter isn't in the list. As if! Bottom left corner, "Edit Filter List" and the Subtitles one should be on the right - select it and press Add then OK.

4) Now it should be in the list. Tick 'Enable' in there. Down the bottom right, "Edit Menu" > "Import subtitles" and in the browse dialog you can change the filetype to ".SRT" files :) I hope that's the right format!!! If you need a subtitle converter there are plenty online but lemme kno if u can't find one. I think VOBSub can convert between SRT and others....? Dunno

Anyway I might share some of my saved profiles soon hey [as templates for tmpgenc4], but I will also try the settings you tried there! Still testing though :P Cheers :)

bboy_sonik · 04/11/2008 07:11 AM

Sorry for double post, but it diserves it. I hope.

I may have stumbled upon a potential method of the PSP recognizing a subtitle stream within an MP4 container, much like UMD videos. Chances are though that the PSP firmware doesn't physically have that capability [is the splitter/decoder module in the PSP for UMD Video the same as MSDuo video?] Hmmm I will investigate this and hack PRX's if needed...

Anyway, the encoder settings you posted are... not very good lol. I prefer bitrate based encoding personally. I will share some photo/video comparisons soon i think as well as profile details, and actually compare x264 and TMPGEnc too. There isn't any up-to-date articles on this online they are all old, but anyway its 1am but ill be doing this tomorrow :)

Peace!

ZiNgA BuRgA · 04/11/2008 06:15 PM

bboy_sonik Wrote:Yeah i checked it out my source was a douche, it uses the MainConcept technology to encode MPEG-4 ISO/AVC which did have non-compliency problems in the past but has been long fixed and is now nice and good. Failing to find a "better" encoder - by that I mean one can encode higher quality than others, speed aint an issue. In my own tests, I used the exact same options in the TMPGEnc/MainConcept encoder and the x264 one, but MainConcept encode seemed to handle super-high motion/action better. I think that might be because TMPGEnc has better 'scene change detection' though and that's not a codec thing its the VME technology in TMPGEnc that handles that but x264 is definately better than every other commercial AVC encoder I've tried! Its actually a little faster than what im using :) but quality is more important to me.

You probably don't have your settings configured properly. x264 is also constantly updated. A properly configured x264 should beat the MainConcept encoder.

bboy_sonik Wrote:Well I want the HIGHEST quality and have ZERO care about encoding speed so if anyone has any tips on how to "encode slower" let me know! I am using 2-pass VBR, and my "Medium Quality" profile is 1024kbps average and 2048kbps max, Motion Search Range I have changed from 64 to 256 [good?]

I'm quite sure you will care about encoding speed. On x264, "--me tesa --merange 64 --bframes 16 --b-adapt 2" will slow down even top of the line CPUs to a crawl.

bboy_sonik Wrote:Also I know that it REALLY depends on the source or what is actually 'in' the video, as to the "best" settings to use... but I'm just trying to get a rough idea here. Will try some more personal tests and comparisons tonight. Thanks guys :)

EDIT: I know I said HIGHEST quality but space is also important to me as I only have a 2GB stick and don't have a massive harddisk either [320GB] hence why i decided to use H.264 instead of DivX - to get higher quality at lower bitrates ;)

Try an x264 command like this (use the latest build - rev999):

Code:

x264 --crf 23 --level 3 --partitions all --me umh --subme 9 --ref 3 --mixed-refs --direct auto --bframes 8 --b-adapt 2 --b-pyramid --weightb --trellis 1 --no-psnr --no-ssim -o out.264 in.avs

(to use that, make a file named "in.avs" with the following contents:

Code:

DirectShowSource("myvideo.avi")
Lanczos4Resize(480,272)
ConvertToYV12()

)
The above command should give reasonable results without slowing the encode to a crawl. If you want to use higher (slower) settings though, just say so.
After you do the above, multiplex the .264 file into an MP4 container (use something like YAMB to do this) and playback the video to see if you like it. To include the audio stream, demux it and transcode it with the Nero AAC encoder (I prefer the MediaCoder GUI) - use LC-AAC, quality set to 0.20.

bboy_sonik Wrote:- It uses the term "Keyframe" under the AVC encoder. AVC video doesn't have keyframes, only ASP video does [DivX, XviD, etc] which is the predecessor to AVC. AVC takes the IBP frames and GOP length to make psuedo keyframes

Keyframes do exist in AVC.

bboy_sonik Wrote:- The AAC encoder is confusing, what the hell is Quality 30 @ 192kbps compared to Quality 100 @ 192kbps???

That's probably an ABR bitrate, or could be a quantizer with the average bitrate it usually achieves.

bboy_sonik Wrote:- Doesn't support 640x480 with a pixel ratio of 16:9 which is what I REALLY LIKE TO USE. Why? It's a good high resolution, and even though its a 4:3 resolution any display that has a 16:9 screen will draw it properly without having to press "screen mode" or "zoom" on the TV/console, and anything that Isn't 4:3 will still draw in letterbox [the black bars]. It's extremely handy.

PSP doesn't support anamorphic content anyway...

bboy_sonik Wrote:- Fastforwarding and rewinding with my player and decoder [Media Player Classic Homecinema, Cyberlink H.264 decoder with nVidia PureVideo SD/HD GPU Acceleration] didn't work. I've experienced this with other MP4 encoders when trying to play them on the PC.

That's more of an issue with your CPU or decoder.

bboy_sonik Wrote:AFTER ANALYSING with AVInaptic i found that the GOM Encoder outputs an "Apple QuickTime movie" container as opposed to "MP4/MOV" container. Odd.

MOV is the QuickTime format.

blessedhands Wrote:Xvid4PSP has audio sync Issue. i don't know if im the only one experiencing it though.

Synch issues almost always are because of your decoders (since XviD4PSP relies on DirectShow, you'll need to check your DirectShow filters), rarely an issue with the encoder.

bboy_sonik Wrote:except when DirectShow Reader is used, then its just standard YUV Transcoding which is poo

How is YUV bad? H.264 uses YUV anyway.

bboy_sonik Wrote:I may have stumbled upon a potential method of the PSP recognizing a subtitle stream within an MP4 container, much like UMD videos. Chances are though that the PSP firmware doesn't physically have that capability [is the splitter/decoder module in the PSP for UMD Video the same as MSDuo video?] Hmmm I will investigate this and hack PRX's if needed...

The UMD videos use a proprietary "MPS" container (modified version of the MPEG-2 PS), and the subtitles are in some PNG format (the PSP was released before the MP4 subtitle standard was formalised).
I'm guessing the soft subtitle format the PSP supports for videos on the memstick is the MP4 subtitle standard (timed text).

bboy_sonik Wrote:Anyway, the encoder settings you posted are... not very good lol. I prefer bitrate based encoding personally. I will share some photo/video comparisons soon i think as well as profile details, and actually compare x264 and TMPGEnc too. There isn't any up-to-date articles on this online they are all old, but anyway its 1am but ill be doing this tomorrow :)

A quantizer encode will always be superior to a bitrate encode, in terms of quality and speed, however you do lose control of the final output size.

Assassinator · 04/11/2008 06:43 PM

ZiNgA BuRgA Wrote:ok lets just settle this

if you want quality and an encoder that's free

use xvid4psp

or use what sensei uses MeGui

or just use x264 directly.

(heh, when did Sensei start using meGUI? Seems like I successfully corrupted him).

ZiNgA BuRgA Wrote:You probably don't have your settings configured properly. x264 is also constantly updated. A properly configured x264 should beat the MainConcept encoder.

Correct. Use high settings, and x264 should be supperior. Tests done by some guys have also confirmed that.

ZiNgA BuRgA Wrote:I'm quite sure you will care about encoding speed. On x264, "--me tesa --merange 64 --bframes 16 --b-adapt 2" will slow down even top of the line CPUs to a crawl.

Also --ref 16 --trellis 2 --partitions all --psy-rd 1:1 --decimate 0

Now you got pretty much the slowest you can get

Hihi

ZiNgA BuRgA Wrote:Try an x264 command like this (use the latest build - rev999):
Code:
x264 --crf 23 --level 3 --partitions all --me umh --subme 9 --ref 3 --mixed-refs --direct auto --bframes 8 --b-adapt 2 --b-pyramid --weightb --trellis 1 --no-psnr --no-ssim -o out.264 in.avs

level 3 doesn't support all the search partitions... Can't remember exact which ones it doesn't support, but P4x4 is definitely one of them.

ZiNgA BuRgA Wrote:PSP doesn't support anamorphic content anyway...

Which is gay...

ZiNgA BuRgA Wrote:
bboy_sonik Wrote:except when DirectShow Reader is used, then its just standard YUV Transcoding which is poo
How is YUV bad? H.264 uses YUV anyway.

Almost everything these days use YV12, (YUV with different chroma subsampling).

You really don't want to use RGB...

bboy_sonik Wrote:P.S. Assassinator, your Sig is very cool! What's that from? I don't know much anime :)

Thanks :)

Fate/Stay Night. Anime's not that good though. (Not saying it's bad, just not excellent).

ZiNgA BuRgA · 04/11/2008 07:02 PM

Assassinator Wrote:level 3 doesn't support all the search partitions... Can't remember exact which ones it doesn't support, but P4x4 is definitely one of them.

Supplying "all" seems to work. Probably x264 handles it, or the PSP just accepts it - dunno >_>
8x8dct is definitely high profile stuff though.

Assassinator Wrote:Almost everything these days use YV12, (YUV with different chroma subsampling).

Didn't know that - thanks :P

Assassinator · 04/11/2008 07:25 PM

ZiNgA BuRgA Wrote:
Assassinator Wrote:Almost everything these days use YV12, (YUV with different chroma subsampling).
Didn't know that - thanks :P

Better explaination is slightly more detail.

YUV is the colorspace. 1 luma + 2 chroma.

YV12 is a format of YUV which uses chroma subsampling so that the chroma is shared for every 2x2 block, rather than for every single pixel. (To save space, since it's not that noticable anyway).

So yeah, you were right about stuff using YUV. YV12 is YUV.

bboy_sonik · 04/11/2008 08:01 PM

Ah thanks heaps for the tips :D

In light of this, I will definately give x264 a go! I havnt tried it for a few months, and as you said its constantly updated so I'll give it a go ;)

Yeah I know AVC MP4 does have keyframes, but many encoders intelligently set that themselves based on the IBP frames is all i mean with the reference frame count and all that, that's according to the ISO 14496-10 AVC standard anyway I read up on that bit. The main reason for this is for internet broadcasting and/or terrestrial broadcast [eg digital TV] so that incase the signal is lost it won't completely 100% f*** up like say, an ASP MP4 would.... that's just what i read anyway its probably "chinese whispers" if you get me

Anamorphic? Umm... yeah it does work.... 640x480 AVC video, with 16:9 aspect ratio, it draws 100% correctly on my PSP and PC. No bars on the left or right side, and only black bars at top and bottom if needed. The PSP scales it down successfully to 480x* and the letterbox bars are perfect... I don't have to change the zoom or screenmode or anything on the PSP or PC it works straight away...

Yeah I know that MOV is the QuickTime format but I was just mentioning how GOM Encoder outputs an obviously different container - an MP4 quicktime-spec as opposed to an MP4 common-spec... if you've never used AVInaptic i suggest you check it out ;)

I'm just saying that YUV can be bad because grabbing the YUV output is the same as transcoding, it doesn't actually decode the frames > process > encode the frames it just "screenshot this frame, add that, screenshot next frame, add that" which is all very nice and good for speed but the GENERATION LOSS [artifacts caused by compressing already compressed content] becomes a problem here!

I know NOTHING about Quantizer encoding! I've done video editing and production for many many years in the workforce and personally, but half this stuff AVC has is all new to me!

Ah thanks again though guys I guess I will perform a face-off between MainConcept and x264, if anyone is interesting I will definately post as accurate as I can comparisons with videos and pictures somewhere when im done. But the fact that x264 supports B-pyramids.. i have a feeling its going to be the clear-cut winner :D

...not to mention it can use a custom matrix! Peace :)

ZiNgA BuRgA · 04/11/2008 08:07 PM

bboy_sonik Wrote:Anamorphic? Umm... yeah it does work.... 640x480 AVC video, with 16:9 aspect ratio, it draws 100% correctly on my PSP and PC. No bars on the left or right side, and only black bars at top and bottom if needed. The PSP scales it down successfully to 480x* and the letterbox bars are perfect... I don't have to change the zoom or screenmode or anything on the PSP or PC it works straight away...

Then I don't get your problem...

bboy_sonik Wrote:I'm just saying that YUV can be bad because grabbing the YUV output is the same as transcoding, it doesn't actually decode the frames > process > encode the frames it just "screenshot this frame, add that, screenshot next frame, add that" which is all very nice and good for speed but the GENERATION LOSS [artifacts caused by compressing already compressed content] becomes a problem here!

So what's the difference between the above two? If you've got a compressed video, there's no magical way to remove the artifacts whilst converting to another format.

Good luck!

Assassinator · 04/11/2008 08:27 PM

bboy_sonik Wrote:I'm just saying that YUV can be bad because grabbing the YUV output is the same as transcoding, it doesn't actually decode the frames > process > encode the frames it just "screenshot this frame, add that, screenshot next frame, add that" which is all very nice and good for speed but the GENERATION LOSS [artifacts caused by compressing already compressed content] becomes a problem here!

-
Screenshots? Add stuff? generation loss? ...Lolwut?

Ok, I completely don't know what you're talking about.

bboy_sonik · 06/11/2008 02:03 AM

Nevermind Assassinator, its just the old argument of Transcoding Vs Re-encoding, there's a plethora of articles on it online :P but that's off topic so anyway...

I tried using x264 via meGUI, but its extreme flexibility and customization options really overwhelmed me, I tried the inbuilt PSP profile [after updating] and the settings you provided Hot 'n' Spicy burger, but my final settings [below] from TMPGEnc turned out better quality at a lower filesize! Now im a bit drunk right now [yeah 7:30pm on thursday night what a loser i kno] so sorry if this is a bit rude, but is it possible that the MainConcept encoder in TMPGEnc 4 Xpress is better than x264? I know many people are OPEN SOURCE For the win ALL The WAY EVERYTHING ELSE SUCKS but srsly, you should try TMPGEnc Zinga with my settings below and tell me what you think and if you are prolly more knowledgable wif AVC encoding than me so tell me if x264 can do better than these settings OK id appreciate it heaps! Knowledge is POWAH YEAH!

Anyway, I have attatched the profile I use as a template for converting videos. It is a TMPGEnc profile, so go download the trial via http://www.pegasys-inc.com/en/index.html and give this profile a go! If you couldnt be stuffed, here is the SETTINGS I used, as well as a sample video i encoded with these settings. It is 100% playable on PC and PSP [FW v5.00] and has bvery impressive quality and size!

MPEG-4 AVC

Profile = Main @ Level 3

640x480, 16:9, 25fps [Progressive]

2-Pass Variable Bitrate

Average Bitrate = 768 kbps

Maximum Bitrate = 8000 kbps

Motion Search Range = 255

Bitrate buffer = 0 [Automatic]

Detect Scene Change = YES

GOP Length = 300 frames

B frame count = 2

Reference frame count = 3

Quantization [I/P/B] = 16/16/18

Entropy coding mode = CABAC

Motion Estimation Subpel Mode = Quarter Pixel

As for audio, who cares :P as long as its AAC, 48khz or less, and Low Complexity [I use the default of RAW in TMPGEnc 4 Xpress as opposed to "with ADTS Headers"]

Anyway, here is a video of the MAX PAYNE Trailer, encoded with the above settings in TMPGEnc 4 Xpress. Have a gander everyone! It is playable on PC and the PSP and is decent quality for both platforms! Unknown if desirable for PS3 or 360 I don't have these [my 360 is broken right now and CBF getting it fixed]

Code:

			http://rapidshare.com/files/161102489/Max_Payne_-_Trailer.mp4

...and here is the profile/template for TMPGEnc 4.0 Xpress, as an attatchment. Extract this archive to your My Documents\TMPGEnc\TMPGEnc 4.0 XPress\Template\Export folder and it should appear in the "Output" list when starting a new project [this folder should already exist]. The only thing you SHOULD need to change is the bitrate [from 768 to a higher or lower number] and the ASPECT RATIO to 4:3 [from 16:9] if its not a letterbox source file.

Let me know what you think! Peace!

P.S. The original video was the 1080p H.264/AVC trailer and was about 98MB. Don't have a source sorry I can't remember! Slack I know...

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