Endless Paradigm

v2 because v1 was this thread ages back.  http://endlessparadigm.com/forum/showthr...?tid=15384

Well anyway it's almost 4 years since I last upgraded my desktop, so I feel like making an update now.


Current plans...

Intel i5-3570K                                    $227
...Going to do some moderate overclocking, without raising voltage.
2GB AMD HD7870 MSI TwinFrozerIII    $235
...Don't really know which brand is better.  The MSI one is cheaper than Asus and Gigabyte.

AsRock Z77M Motherboard                  $88
8G Kit DDR3 2133 G.Skill Ripjaws-X     $55
AsRock Z77 Pro4Extreme4-M Motherboard  $99
8G Kit DDR3 2133 Patriot Division 2      $52
Samsung 840 120GB SSD                  $100
Lite-On DVD-RW                               $19

Thermaltake SpinQ-vt CPU cooler          $56
Antec VP 550W PSU                             $65

27” 5ms Acer V273HL Monitor             $229
...I have absolutely no idea right now what monitor is good.  Need to do some research later.
Achieva Shimian QH270-Lite QuadHD IPS 27'' monitor      $340

Fractal Design R4 Arctic White Case    $159
  or
Corsair Obsidian 550D Case               $169
...I want a noise reducing case because my current computer is loud as hell and the 2 HDDs audibly resonate with each other and shit.  Also screw gaming cases with "cool" designs and 1231513 LED lights everywhere, those are all fugly.

Total - $1351.


Power supply.... err, I use my old 460W Coolermaster?  Oh yeah, my brother also left behind an Antec 380W PSU, Earthwatts is actually a pretty good line (with 80+ and stuff), problem is that 380W probably isn't enough.




What I do with my computer... ... surf internet, watch videos, play some games (not many), read VNs, emulate PS2, occasionally encode some videos, 7zip stuff.  PS2 emulation requires very strong single core performance so no Bulldozer.

Dunno, suggestions?  Brand suggestions (for monitor, GPU, memory, SSD, etc)?  460W power supply enough?

power supply - im no expert but i tried to run your specs here http://www.extreme.outervision.com/PSUEngine , with 2 7200 RPM HDD's and 3 case fans
it said the recommended is 334 watts , so i guess the 380 would suffice specially if its 80+
but yeah, im no expert so i suppose itll be safer to use the 460W :)

RAM - 2133 is way overkill . i dount youll really need that much . go 1866 or 1600 ? (im not sure how big the price diff. is)
try checking those 32nm Samsung RAM . i hear good things about them, overclocks really high and are low profile

everything else looks okay by me :p
good luck with the build assassinator

on a side note i bought a netbook from ebay for £92 used

i recieved a 891.88 Euro / £725 ultrabook with a GT 640m instead double you tee eff lul

Acer M3-581PTG

that's a pretty solid build by the way

boogschd Wrote: [ -> ]power supply - im no expert but i tried to run your specs here http://www.extreme.outervision.com/PSUEngine , with 2 7200 RPM HDD's and 3 case fans
it said the recommended is 334 watts , so i guess the 380 would suffice specially if its 80+
but yeah, im no expert so i suppose itll be safer to use the 460W :)

I actually did some research since, and found that in fact the 460W doesn't really provide any more power where needed.  The Coolermaster Extreme is one of these budget models (the cheapest Coolermaster line, don't ask me why the budget line is named "extreme"), and despite it's 460W rating, can only do 314W on it's 12V rail (the 12V rail powers the CPU and GPU).  The Antec Earthwatts 380W can pull 324W on it's 12V rails, and is also 80+ rated.

But coupled with the fact that 380W is on the low side to begin with, and it's 3 years old (I heard PSU performance degrades over use), and I'm going to be overclocking, that's not very safe at all.  Maybe I'll should just fork out $52 and get myself an Antec VP450P, which is quite excellent and better than almost everything at that price range.

boogschd Wrote: [ -> ]RAM - 2133 is way overkill . i dount youll really need that much . go 1866 or 1600 ? (im not sure how big the price diff. is)

I chose that one because for some reason the price is mostly the same.  The same set of memory (G.Skill Ripjaws-X) is $49 for 1600, $53 for 1866, $55 for 2133.  2400 is $75 and 2600 is $149, so I sort of just chose the one before the prices started really climbing.

But yeah you're right memory speed doesn't really make much difference at all.

boogschd Wrote: [ -> ]try checking those 32nm Samsung RAM . i hear good things about them, overclocks really high and are low profile

Unfortunately, the store I use doesn't seem to have any Samsung RAM.  And I'm in Australia so buying it online (eg. Newegg) and shipping it half way around the world from the US or UK will cost heaps.

boogschd Wrote: [ -> ]everything else looks okay by me :p
good luck with the build assassinator

Thanks

squee666 Wrote: [ -> ]on a side note i bought a netbook from ebay for £92 used

i recieved a 891.88 Euro / £725 ultrabook with a GT 640m instead double you tee eff lul

Nice!

Assassinator Wrote: [ -> ]2GB AMD HD7870 MSI TwinFrozerIII    $235
...Don't really know which brand is better.  The MSI one is cheaper than Asus and Gigabyte.

MSI are okay.
I've personally had bad experiences with them, but it's probably just me.  Their TwinFrozer cards are generally well regarded though.

Radeon 8xxx series rumoured to come out some time early 2013, so you may wish to consider staying with the integrated Intel HD4000 for a while.
Then again, Intel's i5/7 4xxx CPUs are rumoured for early 2013 too, though considering basically no competition from AMD and that Ivy Bridge was released in May 2012, I wouldn't be surprised if this gets delayed.

Assassinator Wrote: [ -> ]8G Kit DDR3 2133 G.Skill Ripjaws-X      $55

As mentioned the speed is overkill, but if the price is negligible, then it doesn't matter.
Don't be afraid to get 1333MHz RAM though.

Assassinator Wrote: [ -> ]Kingston HyperX 120G SSD                 $99

You may wish to research how well these exactly go as I've heard of some Kingston SSDs use rather poo poo controllers.  But for that price range there's quite a number of good 120GB SSDs.  Common suggestions include Sandisk Extreme, Intel 330/520, Samsung 830/840 and Plextor M5Pro.

Assassinator Wrote: [ -> ]27” 5ms Acer V273HL Monitor             $229
...I have absolutely no idea right now what monitor is good.  Need to do some research later.

Take a look at the 27in LED IPS 2560x1440 Korean monitors on eBay.  Typically $300-$400 delivered, but considering you, I'd probably recommend a higher quality panel.

Assassinator Wrote: [ -> ]...I want a noise reducing case because my current computer is loud as hell and the 2 HDDs audibly resonate with each other and shit.

I use an after market CPU cooler (CoolerMaster EVO 212, swapped fan with the Xigmatek S1283's) to reduce noise from the CPU.  GPU fan is fairly quiet.  My PSU (Antec EarthWatts 430W) is probably one of the louder components.  SSDs make no sound, and my HDDs aren't that loud (1x Samsung Spinpoint F1, rest are WD Greens).

Seagate HDDs tend to be the loudest.  I suppose a noise blocking case would be good, but if you're switching to an SSD, you may find that SSD + green HDDs (or externals) don't generate that much sound.

Assassinator Wrote: [ -> ]Power supply.... err, I use my old 460W Coolermaster?  Oh yeah, my brother also left behind an Antec 380W PSU, Earthwatts is actually a pretty expensive and superior line (with 80+ and stuff), problem is that 380W probably isn't enough.

380W is plenty.  Most computers don't use anywhere near that amount of power even under full load.  I'd only be cautious if the GPU is particularly power hungry, or you have multiple GPUs / a dual GPU.

77W CPU, GPU is probably under 150W, and I doubt the rest of your components take up more than 50W.

ZiNgA BuRgA Wrote: [ -> ]Radeon 8xxx series rumoured to come out some time early 2013, so you may wish to consider staying with the integrated Intel HD4000 for a while.
Then again, Intel's i5/7 4xxx CPUs are rumoured for early 2013 too, though considering basically no competition from AMD and that Ivy Bridge was released in May 2012, I wouldn't be surprised if this gets delayed.

Intel Haswell is supposed to be coming out in June or something, definitely not waiting for that.  Radeon 8xxx is quoted as Q2 2013.  But will the new chip actually lead to a significant bump up in price performance ratio?

ZiNgA BuRgA Wrote: [ -> ]You may wish to research how well these exactly go as I've heard of some Kingston SSDs use rather poo poo controllers.  But for that price range there's quite a number of good 120GB SSDs.  Common suggestions include Sandisk Extreme, Intel 330/520, Samsung 830/840 and Plextor M5Pro.

I heard Intel SSDs are slow (not that synthetic benchmarks are a good indication of real world gains).  Dunno, I think my brother did some research some time back and said the Kingston and Samsung ones are good.  But yeah, I can probably do some research.

ZiNgA BuRgA Wrote: [ -> ]I use an after market CPU cooler (CoolerMaster EVO 212, swapped fan with the Xigmatek S1283's) to reduce noise from the CPU.  GPU fan is fairly quiet.  My PSU (Antec EarthWatts 430W) is probably one of the louder components.  SSDs make no sound, and my HDDs aren't that loud (1x Samsung Spinpoint F1, rest are WD Greens).

I'll get an aftermarket cooler if needed - that is, I'll try the stock first, if it's shit and loud, then I'll buy one.

Yeah my HDDs vibrate at different frequencies and the case is poo poo (plain metal frame), the vibrations create a how hum that resonates in a loud-soft pattern every 2 seconds or so.  Fuck that shit, that's why I'm getting a new case.  Also because the old case is a bit sun damaged I guess (one side is sun bleached a bit).

ZiNgA BuRgA Wrote: [ -> ]Seagate HDDs tend to be the loudest.  I suppose a noise blocking case would be good, but if you're switching to an SSD, you may find that SSD + green HDDs (or externals) don't generate that much sound.

SSD for OS install.  Stick one old 640GB HDD in, and I have a 3TB external.

ZiNgA BuRgA Wrote: [ -> ]380W is plenty.  Most computers don't use anywhere near that amount of power even under full load.  I'd only be cautious if the GPU is particularly power hungry, or you have multiple GPUs / a dual GPU.  77W CPU, GPU is probably under 150W, and I doubt the rest of your components take up more than 50W.

3 years of heavy use probably equals like 10% wattage loss from capacitor aging.

Another factor to consider is that if you underload a PSU, it leads to less noise than if you high load a lower capacity one, at the cost of a more expensive PSU ofcourse.  I mean if you use 90% of a 380 PSU will make the fan spin like crazy, while if you use a 550W PSU it would only be a 60% load and the fan would still be on low.

if you want SSD, Crucial M4 and Samsung are best performers, also intel 4000 is powerful stick to it adn wait till new Radeons come out. Only so the 7xxx series get a price drop

Assassinator Wrote: [ -> ]But will the new chip actually lead to a significant bump up in price performance ratio?

Can never tell until release, but regardless, it gives you a wider range to select from.
History dictates that typically you get a speed bump for the same price.

Assassinator Wrote: [ -> ]I heard Intel SSDs are slow (not that synthetic benchmarks are a good indication of real world gains).

Hardly, Intel are one of the upmarket SSD makers.

Assassinator Wrote: [ -> ]Another factor to consider is that if you underload a PSU, it leads to less noise than if you high load a lower capacity one, at the cost of a more expensive PSU ofcourse.  I mean if you use 90% of a 380 PSU will make the fan spin like crazy, while if you use a 550W PSU it would only be a 60% load and the fan would still be on low.

I'm really not sure about that one.  I think you're better off looking at people who've tested these things on the respective PSUs.  Not all PSU fans are equal after all.  And personally, I would expect that PSUs are designed for the top of the line product.
Say if the highest end EarthWatts was like 700W, then you'd think that the 380W is just simply a cut down version of the 700W, so perhaps the fan in the 380W is rated for 700W use.  Random speculation.

ZiNgA BuRgA Wrote: [ -> ]

Assassinator Wrote: [ -> ]Another factor to consider is that if you underload a PSU, it leads to less noise than if you high load a lower capacity one, at the cost of a more expensive PSU ofcourse.  I mean if you use 90% of a 380 PSU will make the fan spin like crazy, while if you use a 550W PSU it would only be a 60% load and the fan would still be on low.

I'm really not sure about that one.  I think you're better off looking at people who've tested these things on the respective PSUs.  Not all PSU fans are equal after all.  And personally, I would expect that PSUs are designed for the top of the line product.
Say if the highest end EarthWatts was like 700W, then you'd think that the 380W is just simply a cut down version of the 700W, so perhaps the fan in the 380W is rated for 700W use.  Random speculation.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean, are you saying that PSUs are like CPUs and they're all the same but with different grades of quality?  Because I quite doubt that's the case.

Anyway, from what I understand generally PSUs only start getting really loud on high load, like 80%+ utilization.  Becuase heat generated is proportionally related to energy generated, if a PSU's fan started going into overdrive at only 50% it wouldn't be able to handle the heat at 100%.

ZiNgA BuRgA Wrote: [ -> ]Not all PSU fans are equal after all
so perhaps the fan in the 380W is rated for 700W use.

It's not really about the fan, more about how much heat is generated.  A more powerful PSU capable of generating 1000W (more transistors/capacitors/wiring/whatever, also bigger heat sinks) won't generate as much heat at 500W than a less powerful 500W PSU running at max load.

Assassinator Wrote: [ -> ]It's not really about the fan, more about how much heat is generated.

A larger fan can move more air than a smaller one, at the same rotational speed.

But you're trying to reason based on many assumptions - I wouldn't trust them.
Personally, I've never noticed a difference in the volume level a PSU emits when under full load vs idle - this is on a generic 500W and my EarthWatts 430W PSU.  If there is any volume difference, it's dwarfed by the volume increase from the CPU/GPU fans.