Endless Paradigm

that's sweeet

I've been trying stuff all day and not been getting anywhere :(

Test on Frame 55645 of DVD 1

ORIGINAL


My Script [Original]


I'm happy enough with that improvement - it got rid of the main problem very well..

Disappointed I haven't been able to figure out the tiny other stuff, which you seemed to have figured out already... shows how poo poo I am at this eheheheh -_-

Senseito Sakura Wrote:Test on Frame 55645 of DVD 1

ORIGINAL


My Script [Original]


I'm happy enough with that improvement - it got rid of the main problem very well..

Looks good enough. And it seems to preserve the details fairly well, which is a plus.

Senseito Sakura Wrote:Disappointed I haven't been able to figure out the tiny other stuff, which you seemed to have figured out already... shows how poo poo I am at this eheheheh -_-

That's because I've dealt with this kind of stuff (haloing) before, so I know the gist of what I need to do straight away. Experience helps.

Don't feel down on it. First time I encountered it, it probably also took me ages to figure out.

Minor haloing is sort if common in animes (even DVDs). But you don't see hardcore haloing like in this case a lot.

Assassinator Wrote:

Senseito Sakura Wrote:Test on Frame 55645 of DVD 1

ORIGINAL


My Script [Original]


I'm happy enough with that improvement - it got rid of the main problem very well..

Looks good enough. And it seems to preserve the details fairly well, which is a plus.

Actually, works really well. Better than my method for that particular image. Even though you used a technique that is created to combat a different problem than what wee have. I give you credit for that.

Ok, you said you used some anti-ghosting filters on it. Anti-ghosting is based on subtractions and additions, of the current or previous frame on the current frame.

If I'm to take a guess at what you did... 2 additions followed by 2 subtractions to get rid of the dark and light rings? (Good work on getting the addition/subtraction positioning right. Would probably be a bitch to set).

There is a theoretical flaw in your method though. That is, a halo is a ring that is larger or smaller than it's basing. A ghost is something that is of an equal size. So what you would have done is subtract/add 2 copies, each one shifted a bit to the left or right, to try to remove the one larger halo, and in theory, that is incorrect. You would not be able to remove horizontal haloing, only vertical, and it would only be partially effective on angled haloing, because the positioning would get shifted as the angle changes. (imagine a direction changing vector).


Another problem is that for places that don't originally have halos, subtraction/addition will actually create it's own (opposite) halos. You will also cause some junk on the extreme left and right sides.

I think most anti-halo methods use something along the lines of selective smoothing/blurring or selective (using masking) changing brightness/gamma of the halo areas. Doing that doesn't have the problems I described above with your method, but also has it's own problems, like loss of detail, and changed brightness/gamma, and isn't always effective.

So yeah, nothing is perfect.

What the hell. Lets just go deen().deen().deen().blur(1).blur(1).blur(1).AAA().DeBlock().Warpsharp(255). There definitely won't be ANY halos left after that.

Assassinator Wrote:Actually, works really well. Better than my method for that particular image.

But yours seems to APPEAR better, on that frame anyway... so why should it matter?

Assassinator Wrote:Even though you used a technique that is created to combat a different problem than what wee have. I give you credit for that.

Ok, you said you used some anti-ghosting filters on it. Anti-ghosting is based on subtractions and additions, of the current or previous frame on the current frame.

If I'm to take a guess at what you did... 2 additions followed by 2 subtractions to get rid of the dark and light rings? (Good work on getting the addition/subtraction positioning right. Would probably be a bitch to set).

There is a theoretical flaw in your method though. That is, a halo is a ring that is larger or smaller than it's basing. A ghost is something that is of an equal size. So what you would have done is subtract/add 2 copies, each one shifted a bit to the left or right, to try to remove the one larger halo, and in theory, that is incorrect. You would not be able to remove horizontal haloing, only vertical, and it would only be partially effective on angled haloing, because the positioning would get shifted as the angle changes. (imagine a direction changing vector).


Another problem is that for places that don't originally have halos, subtraction/addition will actually create it's own (opposite) halos. You will also cause some junk on the extreme left and right sides.

I think most anti-halo methods use something along the lines of selective smoothing/blurring or selective (using masking) changing brightness/gamma of the halo areas. Doing that doesn't have the problems I described above with your method, but also has it's own problems, like loss of detail, and changed brightness/gamma, and isn't always effective.

So yeah, nothing is perfect.

The fact that its there to do in the first place takes the piss out of the consumer >_>

I don't believe that is how the Exorcist VDub filter OR WarpSharp Package EraseGhost work though... from what I can tell they are using the same frame to use brightness subtraction/addition based on that frame.

I used 4 Pixel seperations from the original frame and use the value of -100 to subtract and use the same value opposite (100) to restore brightness and ultimately have a better image. Seemed to work to an extent ^_^

Assassinator Wrote:What the hell. Lets just go deen().deen().deen().blur(1).blur(1).blur(1).AAA().DeBlock().Warpsharp(255). There definitely won't be ANY halos left after that.

Lolz

Senseito Sakura Wrote:

Assassinator Wrote:Actually, works really well. Better than my method for that particular image.

But yours seems to APPEAR better, on that frame anyway... so why should it matter?

I'm not saying your method is better. I'm just saying that your method worked better than mine at removing the side halos. But your method doesn't remove the top/bottom halos at all, and that's a big problem.

Senseito Sakura Wrote:The fact that its there to do in the first place takes the piss out of the consumer >_>

The normal consumer won't notice. A lot of anime have haloing.

Senseito Sakura Wrote:I don't believe that is how the Exorcist VDub filter OR WarpSharp Package EraseGhost work though... from what I can tell they are using the same frame to use brightness subtraction/addition based on that frame.

Chroma subtraction.

Wait, isn't that like what I said?
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Assassinator Wrote:Anti-ghosting is based on subtractions and additions, of the current or previous frame on the current frame.

Senseito Sakura Wrote:I used 4 Pixel seperations from the original frame and use the value of -100 to subtract and use the same value opposite (100) to restore brightness and ultimately have a better image. Seemed to work to an extent ^_^

Like I said, it won't get rid of the horizontal (top/bottom) haloing. And would only partial work on the angled parts. (Study the diagram I drew).

And if there isn't a halo to start off with (not every place has halo), then doing a subtraction just creates your own ghosting.

Otherwise, it doesn't look bad.

Senseito Sakura Wrote:

Assassinator Wrote:What the hell. Lets just go deen().deen().deen().blur(1).blur(1).blur(1).AAA().DeBlock().Warpsharp(255). There definitely won't be ANY halos left after that.

Lolz

Use masking. Then it may work.

Can try to do something like make an edge mask, expand it, subtract the original edge mask to make a "halo mask". Do some heavy denoise (ok, not as much as I wrote above), then merge the cleaned vid onto the original using the "halo mask"....

This is more advanced filtering though, and not exactly easy to do. I don't exactly feel like stuffing with masktool right now. :P

Assassinator Wrote:Can try to do something like make an edge mask, expand it, subtract the original edge mask to make a "halo mask". Do some heavy denoise (ok, not as much as I wrote above), then merge the cleaned vid onto the original using the "halo mask"....

This is more advanced filtering though, and not exactly easy to do. I don't exactly feel like stuffing with masktool right now. :P

That explains why I thought you were kidding

I think I'll leave that for now .. I'm happy as is

Senseito Sakura Wrote:

Assassinator Wrote:Can try to do something like make an edge mask, expand it, subtract the original edge mask to make a "halo mask". Do some heavy denoise (ok, not as much as I wrote above), then merge the cleaned vid onto the original using the "halo mask"....

This is more advanced filtering though, and not exactly easy to do. I don't exactly feel like stuffing with masktool right now. :P

That explains why I thought you were kidding

I think I'll leave that for now .. I'm happy as is

If you mean that previous really long filter chain I posted, then yes, I was kidding.

Assassinator Wrote:

Senseito Sakura Wrote:

Assassinator Wrote:Can try to do something like make an edge mask, expand it, subtract the original edge mask to make a "halo mask". Do some heavy denoise (ok, not as much as I wrote above), then merge the cleaned vid onto the original using the "halo mask"....

This is more advanced filtering though, and not exactly easy to do. I don't exactly feel like stuffing with masktool right now. :P

That explains why I thought you were kidding

I think I'll leave that for now .. I'm happy as is

If you mean that previous really long filter chain I posted, then yes, I was kidding.

ah right, yeah ^^

Assassinator Wrote:

Senseito Sakura Wrote:I don't believe that is how the Exorcist VDub filter OR WarpSharp Package EraseGhost work though... from what I can tell they are using the same frame to use brightness subtraction/addition based on that frame.

Chroma subtraction.

Wait, isn't that like what I said?
|
V

Assassinator Wrote:Anti-ghosting is based on subtractions and additions, of the current or previous frame on the current frame.

Dude, what the fuck was I smoking.

Luma subtraction.